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Gabfest Reads is a monthly series from the hosts of Slate’s Political Gabfest podcast. This month, John Dickerson talks with Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan about their new book Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump. Their conversation explores how Trump makes decisions, how his government is structured, and the fundamentally different way he experiences his second term compared to his first.
This partial transcript has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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John Dickerson: “Does Donald Trump enjoy the presidency, Jonathan?”
Jonathan Swan: “I think this time around, yeah.”
John Dickerson: “And why?”
Jonathan Swan: Well, the first time around, there was always a feeling he felt under siege. He was under investigation. He was reactive. He was surrounded by people who—whatever you think about Donald Trump, he’s not stupid when it comes to reading people—he understood that many of them had contempt for him and thought that he was dangerous and whatever. So I think it was just generally a stressful, unpleasant experience. This time around, he comes in with a sweeping immunity decision from the Supreme Court and with, especially last year, total command over his own party.”
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“I suppose there’s a little here and there in the Senate now, but last year… We haven’t seen a president command his own party—force them to do things they don’t want to do—like Donald Trump did last year. We haven’t seen that before. He’s richer than he’s ever been. His family’s making just inordinate sums of money from the presidency. He’s using power in the ways that he wants to without much pushback. He’s entirely surrounded by flatterers. He’s basically housebound. He doesn’t really travel around. He’s not really doing events. He goes from people flattering him in the Oval Office to people on the Mar-a-Lago patio.”
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“He’s sitting there with his iPad playing Pavarotti and James Brown and having people come up to the table telling him he’s the greatest president ever, a world historic figure, all the rest of it. What’s not to like? He’s got a new jet from the Qataris. Now it’s never enough for Donald Trump, so I don’t think he’s in a state of constant bliss. He’s still frustrated and gets angry about stuff and whatever. But I think generally speaking, for someone who’s completely addicted to both power and attention, this is as close to a dose of pure crack as you can get. The highest purity crack that could possibly be on offer in the US system.”